My Friend is Slowly Killing Herself with Alcohol. I Love Her and Want Her To Live. Do I Not Have a Responsibility Here?

I have to agree with etva on this one -- with an exception.

One of the most common results of any drug dependency is the low self-esteem of the user. Low self-esteem allows a person to abuse themselves. Ergo, improve self-esteem and it gives the user the initiative to improve their health.... But there is a problem.

Alcohol is physically addicting. It can't be cured easily -- and it requires unusual self initiative. No one can do it on their. own.

The solution is love. You must demonstrate to the user that you love them. Love them enough to insist on never giving up. Believe it or not, it is the only thing that really works -- if anything will.

The first step is to get the user to understand that they are addicted and can't free themselves without help. That is the most important step. Once a person can take the initiative to do something about it, then they will seek help.

Often, seeking help is difficult without assistance from those they trust. That is where you come in. If you have stayed with them through all the previous struggles, then they might trust you enough to give them the courage to face painful treatment.

Should I just let it happen because nothing can help her? Should I try to get her family to intervene?

I once struggled with these questions, and was angry because my Dad wouldn't give her an ultimatum. I was convinced that she'd stop drinking if he did. He later told me that he had given her an ultimatum, but in the end, he had two choices -- to accept her for who she is (rather than who HE wanted her to be) or to leave her and the marriage. In the end, he couldn't leave her. He made a commitment and he kept it until he died.

I'll just add, that my brother and I did get my mom away from her addictions for a period of 2 months, when she was recovering from a broken hip (caused by a fall when drunk) and she didn't drink or smoke at all in that time frame. We had serious discussions about her addictions; told her how mean she was when drunk and what it did to us and her grandchildren; told her how much we loved having the ability to talk to her sober, as she was during her rehab; we made plans to go places and do things, just as soon as she was well enough. We were so excited, thinking that there was a silver lining to the accident -- that she'd finally managed to break the addiction.

The first thing she did when she got home was to pour a double shot of scotch and light a cigarette. When we asked why, she said it was her life and her choice. End of conversation.

It's hard to argue with free will. *sigh*

Edit:

Once a person can take the initiative to do something about it, then they will seek help.

Sadly, I don't think that's always true, or at least it hasn't been so in my experiences. But I do agree with you J. Lemert Whitmer, that the only solution is to love them no matter what, which often can test our own will power, and perhaps teach us how difficult it is for them.

He later told me that he had given her an ultimatum, but in the end, he had two choices -- to accept her for who she is (rather than who HE wanted her to be) or to leave her and the marriage. In the end, he couldn't leave her. He made a commitment and he kept it until he died.

There you go. Ultimatums leave NO choices. You're abandoning the person you love because they won't do what you tell them to. Or you're showing yourself to be too weak to stick to your word, both bad.

I divorced while she was in prison, frankly one of the reasons was because it was my only real chance to get custody of our son. Courts hate fathers and would rather leave a child with a drunken, abusive mother than a caring father. Her being in prison for 2 years provided me with an opportunity to save my son at least. Of course that lead to a whole new round of guilt and remorse. No easy answers, ever.

Ultimatums leave NO choices. You're abandoning the person you love because they won't do what you tell them to. Or you're showing yourself to be too weak to stick to your word,

I agree. As Storyartist says, I think ultimatums are really about self, rather than the person you're trying to help. I won't argue that they sometimes work, but if they don't (which I think happens far more often) they are giving the person a ticket out of the situation.

Having said that, I'm not judging anyone for taking that ticket, especially when children are involved. Sometimes, we have to make difficult choices, and for me personally, my children will always come first.

ambiv...Perhaps you should make a copy of this article written by you along with the responses, and allow her to read it/them. Then maybe just maybe she'll understand the depths of that which you feel for her well being. And if reciprocity is in play she could realize how much you're hurting for her coupled with those of us on Newsvine who know her through you are feeling: "She's a human being worth saving".

What's really important is she remain anonymous.

As etva knows, I have been going through a similar situation with my mother. She's been hospitalized and put in a care center for nearly 2 months. She has, because of alcohol abuse the following: Wernickes encephalopathy, pancreatitis, ascites, enlarged liver, enlarged spleen, peripheral neuropathy, alcoholic dementia, 4 very large (and now healing) bleeding ulcers which almost killed her, and cirrhosis of the liver, among other smaller things. It took four weeks to reteach her to walk. She has been told by 3 doctors that she will die within 6 months to a year if she starts drinking again. We got her out 2 weeks ago, and stopped to have lunch to celebrate. I'm not kidding, within 10 minutes of getting out she ordered a Tom Collins. I almost killed her right there, but I staved her off for 2 weeks. I left her house today to resume my life, and I have had reports within 4 hours, of her trying to get people to buy alcohol for her.

What I have come to learn is this. I love my mom and I will not condone her drinking or be around her when she does it. At the same time, I can't lock her up and try and force her into doing what it best for her. The minute she gets an ounce of independence, she will do what she wants. She has responsibility for her own life, just like I do. That doesn't mean I ignore it--I talk to her about it every day and how it impacts her, and her grandchildren and children.

If you haven't talked to her directly about this, maybe you should. She could be just waiting for someone to reach out. It still won't be easy, but you may catch her in time to get things turned around before she ends up like my mom. Plus, strongly suggest a B complex vitamin. Look up Wernickes Encephalopathy and show it to her. I've seen it in real life, and it ain't pretty. It won't cure her, but it can keep her healthier until she hopefully comes around.

Blessings to you and I hope you figure this out.

But it's possible to make them want to change.

Sorry, it's not. I spent a lot of time in group going over what is and is not possible. 'Making' them want to change is only going force them away.

Sometimes it's an ultimatum (get help or get out)

So, do what I tell you or I'll turn my back on you. Yeah, that doesn't work too well.

But I feel that one can always do something, maybe not successfully, but something can always be done.

Doing something useless or doing something wrong is NOT going to help the person and IS going to add to you own sense of guilt and helplessness. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the feeling you've not been through this in your own life.

Ambi, an intervention may help her focus on her problem, but whether it does or not I suggest you get some help dealing with your own feelings of helplessness and despair.

Wheel, this is not an issue of who has the "right" or "wrong" answer. There are as many solutions as there are people, because everyone is different.

I'm simply offering an opinion, not trying to correct yours.

Sorry, jwc, gotta agree with Wheel here. No, it's not possible to make someone change who is deep into their own addictions.

Ultimatums are tools to use to take care of yourself. If you're using them to try to manipulate the alcoholic, then that's about your own control issues, and will only lead to frustration and anger.

Yes, you have choices...for yourself. You can't make your friend's choices for her. As the old saying goes-

You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose. But you CAN'T pick your friend's nose.

Sometimes it's an ultimatum (get help or get out)

So, do what I tell you or I'll turn my back on you. Yeah, that doesn't work too well.

Actually, talking to a doctor about the drug addiction of a friend of mine I was told that this often is your last chance to make them see what they are doing. According to that doctor it is a sort of wake up call when they stand alone and sometimes motivates an addict to change.

The support of ambivalent and her friend's husband clearly isn't working out.

Actually, talking to a doctor about the drug addiction of a friend of mine I was told that this often is your last chance to make them see what they are doing.

It's often a last chance to save yourself as well. Kind of, "If this doesn't work, I'm out of here while I still have some sanity of my own left."

I stuck with her till she wound up in jail. Her mother and she managed to conceal the fact that she had gotten multiple drunk driving tickets, cancelled license, multiple driving with no license, multiple failure to appear, etc. Staying on the Titanic till it sinks beneath the waves is a tough way to go, believe me on this one.

As it happens, I have a friend who has been sober for over 30 years. His wife told him, "It's your choice, the booze or me. I'll help you any way I can and I'll stand by you every step of the way, but I won't live this way."

He loves her more than anything in the world, so he got help, and she stood by him.

It is about wanting to change, and I certainly agree that while you can't force someone to change, you can certainly give them motivation to want to.

Of course it doesn't always work, and I would be the last one to say that it could.

Sadly substance abuse causes only suffering, but I must say I give you a lot credit for sticking it out so long. Luckily I have not had anyone really close to me doom him-/herself but I know how difficult it is to cope with other sick people and "choosing" the sickness must make it worse.

In forty years of being a pastor I never seen someone successfully break through the alcoholic barrier by themselves. Detox is a very difficult part of the process. It can sometimes be fatal. Therapists have told me they have seen some heroine addicts that had less trouble than alcoholics. I might say, though, that each person is different. It also depends upon how far into the addiction they have progressed.

Absolutely, JLW. It's often those who *pull themselves up by their bootstraps* on their own who wouldn't relate in an AA meeting because they'd not advanced into alcoholism --- yet. It becomes a different experience once the line is crossed.

Another aspect that I've seen much in my life. High-functioning alcoholics who get sober on their own, or in some religious-influenced programs, only transfer their underlying addictions. They transfer into work addiction, into dating addictions, into health-spa addictions, behavior addictions that are healthier for the body but do not address the *ache*. There are those who pat them on the back, they weren't REALLY alcoholic, all they needed was a good woman or a good man, or a good job, or people who cared, anything other than being a TRUE alcoholic or in need of AA. (not intended to demean religious organizations -- they are quite useful and effective from a spiritual and coaching standpoint alongside a program designed to deflate addiction -- same can be said about psychotherapy.)

The paradox about AA is that it works for people where all else failed, yet it also is designed specifically to root out the reasons one drinks and dissipate the angst instead of holding it in with white knuckles or with trading addictions. It's through the 12steps that ego is dismantled, not expanded falsely as in the bootstraps method.

I know, it is horrible to be a helpless onlooker.

Just one more thing. I hope that you will let us know, in some time, how you and your friend come through.

Susan----I have a strong background myself, and I like what you had to say to ambivalent. I always factor in a 10%. When we're immersed in the 12step community, it seems higher, but that time I spent in service being available for outreach taught me that 10% was actually hopeful. Ones who call for help have a low rate of success at sobriety, and not to mention the ones who never call. The 10% come from those who walk in on their own. Not because someone brought them, or tricked them, or guilt-tripped them, but on their own. And didn't tell anyone about coming to meetings until they at least got a 30-day chip! When it's personal, and not to impress or *take the heat off*. Nobody can do that for you.

And it works the same for family members. It's always amazed me how adamant family members can be about an alcoholic going to AA, yet put up the same defense about going to Alanon themselves, when they are just as much a part of it.

All true. It's sad to me sometimes to remember the 10% factor but it is true.

I often wish some of these shows about intervention weren't so popular. I think they paint a false picture that may cause harm to desparate families.

Absolutely! I haven't actually seen any of them -- only clips here and there, but enough to see that it's not about intervention at all, but about exploiting the family members by tapping into their control issues. There was a good reason for press, radio and film in the traditions. But that's another topic -- another rant.

Nothing works like sincerity. And the local groups are the only place I've seen that happen.

All true.

I'm smiling.

Yes, please do report back. I anticipate that you'll find it's a blessing in disguise for yourself. That in *helping* your friend, no matter what happens with her, your life will be impacted in a positive way. All 12step programs approved by Hazelden have the grief/addiction counseling built in, so you'll find concepts that you're already familiar with -- a foundation to start with. Looking forward to your comments.

That's exactly why Alanon will help you to help her. You'll see. It's back to the oxygen mask again. It HAS to be about you first when the helpless one can't reach the overhead oxygen mask.

One of those things you can't see until you get in there for yourself.

storyartist is right ambivalent. I know that doesn't comfort you now but it will.

Thank-you, I'm worried for you as you are for her.

Good luck and God Bless.

I'm with Susan. I'm worried, but I'm hopeful. You have a good possibility to be one of the "winners" -- one of the 10%.

I have lost one alcholic friend, and I have lost several drug addicted friends. The best I could ever do was rush them to the emergency room. I begged. I pleaded. I argued. I stood my ground. I didn't abandon them, but I never enabled. Yes, I saved lives a couple of times, but I was never instrumental in leading anyone out of addiction...yet. And it takes a terrible toll in grief and heartache. I no longer allow myself to become friends with an addict. I can't watch anymore.

The closest I came to success was a little different. My sister was in love with an abusive man. I told her that he would eventually kill her and when he did, the lights would go off in my world. I told her, just trust me, take my hand and I will lead you out of this. The way I got through to her was to convince her (and her low self esteem) that I truly needed her and loved her. That she WAS important. And that she couldn't give up and die on me, no way. Not quite the same, but in a way it was an intervention. I wish you strength and luck. Storyartist is right about the oxygen.

Oh, and What percentage of people in recovery are treated and untreated Figures for you to mull over.

Judging another's experience is a luxury best spent on those in which we're a participant. Even if the alcoholic is telling us what happens, it's 2nd-hand and mainly gossip, and funneled through the lens of a practicing alcoholic who is protecting the consequences of their drinking above all else -- above loyalty to marriage and/or friendship.

No matter how much someone hates to hear that, we don't know. In all likelihood, if the husband was not acquiescent, she would have left in order to continue her drinking, and instinctively he knows that. Perhaps he feels he's protecting her in this way, creating a double victim role for him. Not saying that is so -- just trying on ONE alternate reasoning. Because we don't know. If she's doing an illegal drug such as heroin or cocaine, and he's supplying the drug to her, that's another story.

On that point, my only suggestion is to withhold judgment of him. Wise Wizard points out in #18 that the alcoholic in this story as you've described exhibits behavior that is married more to her bottle than her husband. It truly is that way from the alcoholic's perspective. Where does that leave the spouse? Besides, he's not the problem. Why create another one when there's already enough on the plate.

She responds with more alcohol because she looks for excuses to do that. She baits -- he acts out -- she drinks. Until that wears off, and she creates another reason.

We can all hope for the best, dear ambivalent-- please, I care about YOU very much. Please, be ready to be unable to help her. Your own sanity comes first.

ambivalent

be ready to walk away if you have to also, for your sanity.

It could come to that, sometimes they have to hit rock bottom for them to wake up.

And sometimes, rock bottom isn't deep enough. I think that some of them want to die, and that is the best way to do it... I'm so sad for you!

You're very welcome!

It's my pleasure to be supportive to you as I feel you are a Lady and your heart and mind are in the right place for your valued friend.

I'm glad that you are going to participate in a support group, as that support will help both you and your continued efforts with your friend.

Again, I hope the best for you and yours, and for happiness in your life!

My alcoholic friend isn't mentally ravaged - yet. But she has taken a couple serious departures from reality when we've been together and she's chosen to drink waaaaay too much in my presence. I truly feel your pain, ambivalent. Again, all I can do when I've been in her presence when she is seriously delusional is to tell her about it later when she's clear-headed. My friend lives in another state so we are not in each other's physical space very often. I do think my stance would be different if my friend was reaching the point where she's rarely landing on planet earth mentally. I would probably have to find out what the laws are in her state regarding reporting someone as a mental health risk to themselves or others. If she is truly mentally ravaged, that is an alternative plan to getting her help if she really isn't mentally stable enough to participate any longer in keeping herself healthy.

You can call Alcoholics Anonymous and ask to send someone to call or talk to her. It's been done -- I think it depends on how each local community feels about that, but it's worth a phone call. Honestly, there's an overload of mental health patients and deep budget cuts for staff. I suspect they won't take a call about alcoholism very seriously, especially for someone who isn't sleeping on the street in a dangerous neighborhood. They'd probably just refer you to AA anyway.

Other than removing their license to drive a vehicle, or arrest for public drunk, there's no law that prevents us from drinking ourselves to death. There are many things in this society, and in this world, that people indulge in -- race car drivers, etc -- which are high risk, and many die. It's our free will. Not defending it, just saying, you can't force another person to live as you judge that person's life to be. It's up to them and God.

One of the very first things you'll see in Alanon is the concept of detachment. They are the pros. They practically invented detachment. It's about detachment from the wavering, from the agony, not detaching from the person. When we judge the alcoholic or try to plan their life for them, we are solidly attached to the problem, not the person. They teach how we don't have to throw the person away in order to detach from the problem. It's not all or nothing. It's US who change. We learn how to be friends in a way that doesn't hurt us while we're in it, and helps them. When they no longer feel themselves struggling with us, we often find they open up more because they feel less judged. But you'll find these things out for yourself, and they will be different depending on you and on your friend. I'm looking forward to your follow-up.

And keep in mind that all of us who are sharing with you on this article -- we do it too. I can tell you what Alanon offers, but you'll go and pick up on very different aspects that apply more to you. I'm quick to relate the value of detachment because that was so relevant to my own learning. (I just sent you an email with a passage about it.) It's up to you to decide how relevant that is to your own story. The only thing I know for certain from what you've already said is that you have a friend with a serious relationship with alcohol, and you could use some experienced input about how to adjust your own relationship to best help both of you. Just take the parts that apply to you, and leave the rest for the others who need that part. Listen for one person in the room who says something that resonates -- someone who knows how to do something you want to learn how to do. Then go up to her and ask for her phone number at the end of the meeting. That's all you have to do. That's not bothering anyone -- that's what they are there for.

ambivalent- I'm fine with it. It was all her own choices, I had to respect that's how she lived that was her life and her journey. She was a great girl. I learned always love the person but you don't have to love the things they do. So that is how I now live. I always love the person and sometimes just hate the things they do.

I was never going to change her. I just loved her for who she was. Good luck with your friend. It's all her. She is going to live it however she wants. Doesn't matter what we think. IMO

Thank you for the memories...really...She was fun about as fun could be! So alive...

Do what you have to do but be firm on your decision what ever it may be to in preventing your friend from killing herself with alcohol or any other substance.

Remember! It's not your fault.

Do your best and don't blame yourself if it doesn't work.

That sounds about right. My first thought too was, I wouldn't say you are "responsible," but as a friend, if you were to do nothing, that might be something that haunts you until the end of your days. Never been in that kind of situation myself, and I'm sorry that you are. But again, like mf pointed out, don't blame yourself.